Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

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Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Original6 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:29 pm

I am bringing Jonathon Bernier up and placing Stefan Elliot down to my minors.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  THaynes on Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:03 pm

I take huge exception to this move.

#1: Players like Elliott have only been selected in the AHL draft since our leagues creation (back to our CBS days), and since our draft occurred while the FA pool was open (which it shouldn't have) O6 was able to add Elliott? Who of us that have been in the league thought this was legitimate? I certainly didn't think so, and had him on my draft list.

#2: Then Elliott is demoted to his AHL team? So not only could I not draft this guy, O6 bipassed me in the draft by adding the rook in the FA pool, and still got him on his minor league team? And the guy still hasn't played an NHL game!!? Mad

Just frustrated is all.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Original6 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:30 pm

Yeah and I wish I had known I could have drafted him on my AHL squad in the first place but I under the constitution was only drafting players from current draft year. The rule clearly stated we were only drafting from current draft class, not all players who hadn't played a game in the NHL. Which given that rule I assumed he was eligible to be picked up onto my NHL team. Did you want me to assume players that weren't in current draft class AND also hadn't been drafted in AHL are just in fantasy hockey limbo and could never be added to a roster of any sort forever? I clearly had no idea we were drafting from any draft class that had 0 NHL experience as seen in my AHL selections that could only mean players drafted previous to 2011 were able to picked up. As far as I knew, nobody had him on a draft list because he was not able to be drafted.

Should I be punished because I was abiding by the league constitution and yet everyone who was operating under some phantom constitution made by their own assumptions is good to go?

Oh and I had every intention of keeping Elliot up but I also thought he was a lock to make the roster. just an FYI that this wasn't my scheme all along. I honestly was not scheming at all, I thought I was just picking a FA up that wasn't eligible to drafted in the AHL. I don't know how I was supposed to assume any differently.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Kane's Mullet on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:56 pm

I joined the league last year and it was made clear that for the first Minor league draft anyone was available. After that we would only draft from the incoming class. It is in fact written this way in the constitution if I'm not mistaken.

What's done is done. There is no way to change the past because he operated under the same rules that are applying to everyone.

Going forward if people feel that this was an oversight in the constitution we should have a vote to correct the issue.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Kane's Mullet on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:23 pm

I went back over the Constitution and this is clearly going to be an argument of interpretation.

"4. Minor league rosters will consist of players drafted in rookie drafts that haven't yet played in the NHL. All minor league players must be selected in the NHL Entry Draft(i.e. no 16 year old phenoms that are still trying to get through high school). These players will have a 3 year retention time before they are required to be called up to the major league roster. Therefore, a player drafted in this year's minor league draft (Taylor Hall) would be given a three year retention time and by season 4 would have to be called up if not already done so. (The Minor League Entry draft in subsequent years may be extended to two rounds if their is significant turnover of players)"

So when you do draft they must be 0 games played. Players drafted can be protected for 3 years.

After Season 1, we will have an AHL Entry Draft. This will be just like the real NHL and will consist of players that have yet to play in an NHL game.

Real drafts are only for incoming players correct?

Substitute players may be sent down and protected for the three year time frame other than those currently protected. If a manager decides to call up an AHL player and would like to send down another in his place, the player being sent down must be officially on the manager's roster, be in the NHL minors and have not played more than 25 NHL games. Therefore, no manager may cherry pick some minor leaguer that has not played atleast one NHL game to fill the void. Once the player has been sent down, the player that has been called up will be removed from the AHL protected player list and the man sent down will be added. (Added 10/02/2010)

If you decide to bring a player up you can send one down. In order for them to qualify they must be on his roster, in the minors and have played less than 25 games.

This is where everyone is going to argue. Elliot was freely available. 06 picked him up thinking he would make the team. He didn't and he decided to make a move.

"Therefore, no manager may cherry pick some minor leaguer that has not played atleast one NHL game to fill the void."

This statement is where I have a problem. So if you did want to send someone down to the minors you need to carry them on your team for how long? How long before you are considered a "cherry picker". I feel like either you allow substitutions or you don't.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Knucklepuck on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:20 pm

Kane's Mullet wrote:

"Therefore, no manager may cherry pick some minor leaguer that has not played atleast one NHL game to fill the void."

This statement is where I have a problem. So if you did want to send someone down to the minors you need to carry them on your team for how long? How long before you are considered a "cherry picker". I feel like either you allow substitutions or you don't.

So I realize I wrote up a terrible regulation for this aspect and I am trying to fix it, but there was no discussion on the rule prior to the draft. Then I made the bold move of drafting someone that was not from this year's class (obviously I am involved in too many league and mixing up what i thought was in one league for another)

Now with all that being said, there are two main issues, drafting minors and substituting minors.

The first one has been addressed with the revised rule, basically anyone that has been draft and rights are owned by a NHL team. This should not be an issue moving forward.

Second, the substituting of minor league players. Here is the tricky part, how you make it fair after the initial draft? I was originally thinking that if a manager had to drop a player to pick up the minor leaguer, it would be more difficult to run through a dozen or two different minor leaguers throughout the year. If managers would like to suggest revised language, we can discuss and vote.

Now to Taylor's point, my response does come with a few assumptions but if the assumptions are true, Jay would have the same lineup. First, if you wanted Elliot you would have drafted him instead of Schwartz and forced my hand as a commissioner. Second, if you were so interested in Offensive Dman there were like 3 more on Elliot's prospect rating level.
Third, if Jay selects Elliot at 17, Saad likely makes it through the rest of the draft and then Jay picks him up as a FA. In 10 games, Jay swaps Bernier for Saad when Saad is sent down. Therefore the net result would be the same as it stands today.

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Re: Jonathon Bernier up to NHL

Post  Knucklepuck on Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:06 pm

Knucklepuck wrote:
Third, if Jay selects Elliot at 17, Saad likely makes it through the rest of the draft and then Jay picks him up as a FA. In 10 games, Jay swaps Bernier for Saad when Saad is sent down. Therefore the net result would be the same as it stands today.

Sweet, my assumption was right...no harm no foul Very Happy

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